I’ve had a love/hate relationship with Fender over the years. When I’ve loved Fender, I’ve really loved them, and when I’ve hated them, I’ve really hated them. Right now, I’m really hating them. I’m just aghast at the prices they’re charging for their new gear! This Champ ’57 Reissue from the Fender Custom Shop lists at $1295 with a street price of $999! This for a 5 Watt amp with a diminutive 8″ speaker.
Make no mistake: The parts for this cost less than $400! This pricing is absolutely outrageous. Yeah, I’m familiar with its history, blah, blah, blah. And even though I’m no electronics dude, and couldn’t possibly construct an amp myself, I know a few manufacturers who build hand-wired amps with more power and GREAT sound for even less!
Take for instance, the Aracom VRX22. This is a hand-wired, 22 Watt amp that simply kicks freakin’ ass, and the head sells for $895! Then, there’s the upcoming release of the Reason Bambino. This is an 8 Watt amp that will sport that distinctive Reason sound. This head costs $699! It’s my next amp.
I’m sorry folks, this is the same issue that I had with the Fender Roadworn series of guitars. I’m not really in to reliced guitars, but there’s no way I could justify paying $999 for a freakin’ MIM guitar, especially when I paid less than $400 a couple of years back for my MIM Strat.
MAYBE Fender’s production costs are much higher than the smaller run manufacturers (not likely), which is how they justify the price-point for this amp. But this amp is nothing special from my point of view, and as I mentioned above, the parts for this cost less than $400. Lots of people have built 5F1-based amps. Look at the Valve Train Amps Concord. This is a 6 Watt point-to-point, hand-wired combo with a 10″ speaker. It sells for less than $500.
Go ahead, you can argue all you want about the classic sound and history of the Fender ’57 Champ reissue. But to me, Fender’s just again trying to trade on nostalgia. If that’s what floats your boat, more power to you – and mind you – I’m not questioning the quality or the tone of this classic. It has done much to contribute to the sounds of rock and roll. I just want to make it very clear that there are clear alternatives out there that may not have the name but undoubtedly have great tone, and watt-for-watt, and dollar-for-dollar have A LOT more value.
Note that I have the Champ 600 and it is one of my all-time favorite amps. But it has limited usability outside of my home studio. And that’s another thing that bugs me about the ’57 re-issue. It’s a hefty price to pay for an amp that would see limited if any use outside of my studio.
Like I said, if this floats your boat, and the price of this classic reissue, more power to you. For me, I demand a lot more value for the money I pay.
Recent Update
I’m still not sold on this amp, even though I have indeed played it, and it has some real vintage mojo. The sounds it produces are fantastic, but I still can’t justify buying it for the price Fender wants for it. Besides, I’ve seen some late-50′s originals that sell for the same price on EBay! I would buy one of those before I’d buy the re-issue.
I don’t think you should get angry with Fender, you should wonder at the stupidity of the people who buy these things. I agree that “relic”ed guitars are a waste of money, but lots of people buy them – like with the Andy Summers Telecaster.
People were complaining about the price, but my answer was, well, if you want an aged Telecaster, buy a new one, play it to death, and create some of your own memories. But no, there are idiots out there who feel that they are somehow enhanced by having a Telecaster that is aged in exactly the same way as Andy Summers’. And the same goes for any other guitar hero.
I remember Steven Segal bragging that he owns some huge number of Fender original Tweed amps, more than Eric Clapton or Keith Richards or someone. Well, presumably Clapton and Richards have worked out that they probably don’t need more than one, and in any case, they are probably more interested in what they can do with new equipment, than with relentlessly digging back into the past. Why brag about owning lots of old amps?
Don’t blame Fender for satisfying these urges – blame the gearheads who pay for them.
I do wonder at what you mention, but to me that’s a matter of taste. I don’t get the relic thing, and would rather relic it myself or buy a really used guitar. But if that’s what someone’s interested in and they’re willing to pay it, more power to ‘em.
What bugs me about Fender is the premium they’re charging for their gear now. They recently inflated their prices 40% on everything. I suppose it was a business move in the face of this economy, but it also brought their prices close to boutique prices. Fender’s no boutique manufacturer. Even “custom shop” stuff is somewhat mass-produced.
Of course, I do realize that Fender has a huge name on which it can trade, and people will still purchase their gear because the brand. And if it doesn’t bug people to pay $850 for an amp that cost less than $600 a little over a year ago (Hot Rod Deluxe), I have no problem with them buying the gear. That’s their choice.
Me? I’ll vote with my feet. I, for one, don’t buy into the value.
I agree with both of you. As my pappy used to say, “A fool and his money are soon parted”. Fender wouldn’t build an amp like this if they didn’t think they could sell it. If someone is dumb enough to plunk down that kind of money for an amp like this, then Fender is surely smart enough to take it. Hats off to Fender’s marketing department!
Watch what happens in about three months. It happened about the same time frame as their huge price increase. They’re going to have a “blowout” sale. Funny thing is that the sale prices will still be higher than their old prices.
Yeah, Fender marketing is pretty savvy. I have to hand them that.
Yeah, the masters of marketing. Quietly mark something up 20%, then advertise a HUGE 10% off blowout sale! Heckuva deal. The marketing scheme I love the best is the mattress seller that offers to beat any bonafide competitor’s price, and if they can’t beat it your mattress is free! Only a complete moron would fall for that. I’m sure they’ve given away lots of mattresses. Bwah ha ha ha ha !!!! Sorry….I digress…..
If your looking for a great deal and a quality built, great sounding low wattage amp check out the Blackheart 5 watt head and cab. You will be surprised at what you can get for a couple hundred bucks. I own one…….along with those high priced Fender amps. Alos check out Traynor YCV series amps. They are equal to any Fender.
Did a review of that amp at the beginning of the year. (http://guitargear.org/2009/01/17/gear-review-blackheart-engineering-bh5-112-little-giant-5-watt-combo/). Great value. I really dug its tones!
[...] Fender ’57 Champ Reissue: Are You Nuts? [...]
I guess I am nuts, because I think these amps are cool as hell. I’ve been agonizing over buying one of the Fender Champ 57 reissues since they came out. I’ve wanted one of these for the past 30 years, but couldn’t afford it. I played one at Elderly Instruments the other day and was very impressed. It’s a bad ass little amp. Today I received a coupon for 20% off my next order from Musician’s Friend, and I think I’m going to pull the trigger and get one. Someone talk me out of it… please!
Heh Michael,
Before you buy the $ 1000.00 Champ go check out the Black Heart Little Giant 5 watt Head and Cab, It might change your mind and save you a lot of money. About $ 700.00 worth of savings.
I do own a Fender Blues Jr NOS in Tweed and also the Blackheart so I understand…But I also have a hard time trying to decide which one to play. They both sound fabulous to my untrained ear…..Good Luck either way.
Michael,
I just scored a vintage ’58 Champ for $750 with all original parts, except a replacement speaker. Spent another $250 to have my amp tech check it over and upgrade the old speaker (mind you, I bought it to be a player). So for the same amount of money, I’ve got an original.
Like you, I’ve wanted a real Fender Champ for a long time, but I was always interested in the original. I’ve played the re-issue amp, and it’s great, but there really is something about the original that I’ve always loved. The cool thing is that I still totally dig my Champ 600, but it has a completely different sound!
In any case, if you’re considering getting a Champ, you might consider getting a vintage one. They can be had for around the same price. Mind you, the ones in pristine condition go for about $1500. LMK, if you want more information on the vintage ones. There are things to look for before you pull the trigger.
Great website, Dawg. I have to disagree with your assessment of the Fender Champ. It seems to me that a lot of boutique amps with similar circuitry and wattage sell for around the same price. The Swart Space Tone is $850. The Lil Dawg Champster combo is around $700 WITHOUT a speaker. I’ve seen plenty of 5 watt boutique amps for over $1,000. Fender may be charging $100 or $200 more than some other comprable amps, but I think they’ve earned it, and the Champ will hold its value, or even increase in value, over the years. A whole amp industry has grown up around copying Fender amps and guitars and I don’t really begrudge their price point for most of their products. Like I said, I think they’ve earned it and God bless Leo Fender! I can’t imagine what the guitar world would have been like without him.
Hello,
I’ll agree with you on certain things but disagree on other things. Are these amps over inflated in terms of cost. Yes, absolutely, which I find amazing since Fender like any other company buys in bulk which lowers their cost further.
Part of the problem is that Fender sees this as a business and not what they should see themselves which is a equipment leader. If it wasn’t for Fender, amp companies like Gibson and Marshall, to name a couple, would not be where they are. The original Marshalls were made since the cost of importing the Fender Bassman was too high.
Having said this I do disagree that it would be crazy not to buy one. If you buy one amp that is perfect for both studio and for practicing then that amp would be it. The problem is is that Fender has way too many products and needs to scale back a bit. This is the reason why “Boutique Amps” are doing well. I would also argue that the other three companies out of the big four (i.e. Marshall, Peavey, Vox) don’t understand that and keep churning out either a reissue themselves or are making their new product so digital that it doesn’t even come close to being musical equipment. It is just that it is more associated with computer equipment with the only caveat is that once that stuff breaks it can’t be fixed. The old stuff will outlast you and if maintained you can pass it on down to anyone and they will enjoy it. I’m planning on learning electronics and building my own as you are correct the parts can be purchased for far less than what the reissues are going for.
Dennis
You mention that Fender’s production costs are higher than small builders. I am not sure how you reached that conclusion.
Any amp that Fender releases will be built in quantities far exceeding any ‘small’ builder. That means that they enjoy the benefit of ‘economies of scale’ – buying parts in huge quantities relative to a small builder and therefore reducing their relative cost substantially.
I don’t know where this particular amp is manufactured, but if it is Mexico or Asia then Fender’s labor cost relative to a US or Canadian based small builder is substantially lower. Even if it is made in the US, it is highly likely that Fender build this amp on a production line or semi-production line where the time to build is much less than hand building/wiring one amp at a time on a single bench.
Combine those two factors and the cost of this Champ reissue is almost certainly much less than what a small builder must invest in each amp.
If that’s even partially true, the profit margin on this amp must be VERY high even when you consider the substantial cut that storefront dealers take on every sale. Fender is a business – a big one – and they are driven to make as much profit as possible. It appears that their strategy with this and other similar products is to take full advantage of their low cost manufacturing capabilities and charge a premium price that can be justified – to some – on their brand name and history.
That gets to the early points made here about the fact that regardless of the price there are lots of people willing to pay what Fender is asking for this amp. That’s a personal choice.
However, what if you don’t want to play that game? There are amps out there that are hand made in North America that don’t carry traditional ’boutique’ prices. It is possible to get the tone and hand built quality without paying ’boutique’ prices.
Don Mackrill
Like Mack Amps!
Welcome, Don! Great points!
Thanks for the welcome GD, much appreciated!! I have just discovered your site and I love what you’re doing!!
These amps come out of the Fender Custom Shop. Hand made in Corona CA. Comparing the labor costs to a Chinese sweat shop is quite foolish. There is also a very limited market for this amp so it’s not made in large numbers – again driving up the cost. Regardless of the fact that this amp is made by Fender, it’s absolutely a high end, boutique amp in every respect.
You seem to believe that his isn’t a very versatile amp – and your right. However, it’s not designed to be. It’s designed to make one sound and make it better than anything else and in my opinion it succeeds. Yes there are more powerful amps in this price range – even from Fender. The last thing most people (who are interested in this amp) want is more power. At 5 watts this amp can be dimed for recording without blowing the headphones off an engineers head and pealing the paint. If this isn’t something you need – don’t buy it.
There are lots of excellent small wattage amps out now and some that are very reasonably priced. I have yet to hear one that sounds like a Tweed Champ. Not saying they sound worse – just different. If $1000 is more than you’re willing to pay for this, then so be it, but I think you’re venting frustration about the price is misguided.
Greg
There are plenty of US-based shops that sell tweed champ clones for far less. Plus, as I mentioned in the article, you can get an original for the same price or even less. I got my ’58 for $700. So no, it’s not misguided.
Also, here are some examples of originals that you can get:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1954-Fender-Tweed-Champ-5D1-Tube-Guitar-Amplifier-/330591046620?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf8c30bdc http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Tweed-vintage-late-1950s-Champ-amplifier-/250862099482?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a688bdc1a http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-Fender-Tweed-Champ-600-Deluxe-Tube-Amp-Sounds-Good-/230647010337?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b3a21421
Fender doesn’t price their merchandise according to what vintage values are. They, like every other manufacturer on the planet, base their prices on a formula – taking into account material and production costs. If you got a nice, vintage model for less – good on you. Were I to buy one, I’d happily pay the premium for a new one that will have know reliability and a warranty and such.
The examples you include are probably all great amps – though the last one is a Champ 600 – not the same thing. I’m certainly aware of the vintage mythology associated with musical equipment but this is one example where I don’t buy it. These are exact copies of the originals, down to the tube rectifier (rarely found in clones). I can’t see spending that kind of money on an amp that I can’t try first – likely to have dead caps, blown speakers or any other of a myriad of potential problems.
New models can easily be had for $900 out the door at the big box stores and I’d pay that any day before trying the waters on one of those on eBay.
I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m just saying that there are those of us who see the value in these ‘new’ amps. You may think the price is out of line, but I don’t believe it is and judging by the reviews I’ve read elsewhere, there are loads of folks who agree with me.
Greg
That’s a good point Greg, and I didn’t think you were being argumentative. I do understand economics behind the pricing, it’s just that for me, there are alternatives. And I understand that it’s a CS item, so there will be a premium. When I wrote that article I was pretty shocked, mainly because I know how simple that circuit is. And frankly, labor costs aside, to me, Fender is also trading on the nostalgic value to up the price of the amp.
That said, I’ve played one – actually a few times – and they are sweet amps, there’s no doubt about it.
Who says everyone can build a kit? What’s that run?
So $500 for a kit, a couple hundred for some random dude to build it?
So then what happens if they don’t do a good job, more headache.
I think I will have a guy at fender build it and have a warranty.
Or I could spend 20 hours building it, if I get it right I may
only mess with it another 10 hours? How much money could
I make in 30 hours? about 1,500 hundred.
I think that covers the extra cash for the fender amp.
Huh? No kits for me either.
Don’t Be a Cheap Dude: Kits are awesome if that’s something you want to do. Electronics have been a hobby of mine for a few years, so I don’t mind the few hours it took me to build my Champ clone. It cost me $480 total, and that includes NOS tubes. Took me about 4 hours total, after the kids were in bed. It sounds AMAZING, and there’s a huge sense of satisfaction that comes with doing it yourself. Plus, I learned a ton about tube amps on the way, which is helpful for any repairs etc. down the road.
It’s not for everyone, but I would sure not spend the $1K on it when I can build it for less than half. That’s just me, though.
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